BOB MARICICH 

Jon Pertchik: 

Hi everybody, I'm Jon Pertchik and this is Scale Up Stories, a special series from The Market Makers Podcast. In these episodes, we step out of the showrooms and into the boardrooms, speaking with CEOs, founders and business leaders who shape the design, furniture and lifestyle industries. I couldn't think of a better person to kick off this series with than industry icon, Bob Maricich. Former CEO of ANDMORE and current Executive Chairman, Bob started from the most humble beginnings in Montana in a small little trout fishing town that has a population of probably two digits. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

We didn't have a hospital at Black Eagle, Montana, but it all started in Black Eagle, Montana. Incredibly poor, but everybody looked out for everybody else. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

All the way to conceiving of and growing ANDMORE as a billion-dollar company. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

I had a real belief in the business model. There was no better way for buyers and sellers to come together, the business to business physical markets. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

He's overcome everything you can imagine in business over, God, probably shouldn't say, he'd probably be upset with me, four to five decades of all kinds of every cycle, every crisis, recession you can imagine, and he's always come out the other side. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

For a year and a half, I would stand up in front of the group and go, "We're going to make it," despite the fact that a Las Vegas review journal, the headlines one day was a picture of the campus with a headline that said, "Foreclosed." And when you're in a great financial crisis, this is sink or swim. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

We get into all of that, plus what it was like to be fired from one of these companies, spoiler alert, not great at the time, to what life looks like now that he's mostly retired. Thanks so much for being with us, and I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. 

So I do have notes, Bob, because the team does a great job of giving me research on people, we do the podcast. This is different because you're a friend, you're kind of a mentor, a boss, you're a lot of things, and it's different, it's more personal, but I still have to do my own research and it's part of how I get prepared. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, I'm flattered that you would do that. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Well, geez, I'm honored you're here and I'm happy to be a part of this. I wouldn't be a part of this company without you here, Bob. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, I did my research on you about a year ago, actually a little more than a year. You've been here 13 months. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Yeah, 13 months. It's pretty crazy. We met probably 15 months ago maybe. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Right. Yeah. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

And that was part of why I'm here. A big part of it was the ownership group in Blackstone, I have tremendous respect for, but if you weren't the person you are, I wouldn't be here. Period. End of story. And I mean that in many ways. One, just you've created this amazing business, ANDMORE, really incredible. We'll talk a whole bunch about that. More than that, way more than that, just who you are as a person. Something you promised me in the beginning was you took the company from A to B and B to C, you see me as the person to go from C to D. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Without a doubt. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

And you also said as part of that, you realize I may see things differently, do things differently, and you're going to get behind that. And you've been amazing. The self-discipline when I'm talking about things that maybe we can do something a little different or a little better, the implication, even if not intended, is there's something critical, even though I don't mean to be critical, right? And to have the humility and strength to deal with that, where does that come from? Maybe let's start there. Where does that come from as a person? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, I think everything's a journey, and you made a great analogy with A to B and B to C. It was time for the company. I had gotten older, a lot older and had looked to my next chapter. And getting somebody that was another me was not going to take the company successfully from C to D or where we're going now. So to not be open to new ideas, new ways of doing things would be an inhibitor on the company growing and what's best for everybody. And you've got to embrace change. And also it's a different world. Your skill set that you developed in your great career is a whole different point of view than mine, and that's good for the company. That's really good for the company. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

I'm curious, I appreciate that obviously, and thank you, where do you think that comes from? And maybe we can start a little bit at the beginning. Part of what I want our audience to understand is how did people achieve what they've achieved in our industry? How did they become who they are? And you've created this incredible business that without this business, this industry would not be the same, that you get credit for creating the largest physical markets for our industry where buyers and sellers come together. So going back, and we'll talk more about the business too maybe, but I want to go back. I was talking about humility and openness and I know you grew up in Montana, you're from Montana. Maybe share a little bit about that if you don't mind, a little bit about what it was like to grow up as Bob Maricich in Montana. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

We didn't have a hospital at Black Eagle, Montana, but it all started in Black Eagle, Montana and in a neighborhood, an ethnic neighborhood of Croatians, Italians. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

In Montana? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

In Montana, yeah. They had all come over looking for work, and the work was in the copper mines. And incredibly poor, but a work ethic that was unbelievable and a sense of loyalty to each other, to people. And everybody looked out for everybody else. And you realize very quickly as you start gaining momentum in your career and life and play team sports, I played basketball in college. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Played basketball in Montana State 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah. On a scholarship. Yeah, probably the only way I could afford to go to college. The common denominator in all of that is team and being able to be a great team member and also at times be a great team leader. And of course that's all learned as you go along. But I think if you have a great moral rudder and you have that perspective of you achieve your best work with and through other people, that's a force multiplier. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Moral rudders and principles are what I think take you through the best of times and the worst of times is if you have that foundation, you really can do so much. So I'm going to jump ahead and then I want to come back to that, but I had read a little something about Jack Crahan at Flexsteel and how he treated you as you were departing and how maybe that relates to some of the things you just said about maybe a lesson learned there and what have you. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Gosh, you did do a lot of research. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

I care about you Bob more than just... I care about all of our podcast guests. I have a personal relationship with you. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

This was in the late 70s, and I had had success at Texaco and then in the veneer business and then going to work for Flexsteel. And it had been a series of one year being better than the next year and added responsibilities. And one day I looked in the mirror and said, "I see Bob Maricich a president or a CEO of a company." And Flexsteel, great company, great relationships. 20 years after this, I went on their board and I had a great deal to do with them, but I was not going to be president there. It became obvious. My boss was only a few years older than me. And anyway, so I answered the phone one day and was recruited away to, at that time the largest manufacturer of furniture for the hotel industry. But telling them I was going to leave was one of the hardest things that I ever had to do. 

And Jack Crahan was the president, and he was a bigger-than-life guy. He was a Marine Corps pilot and just a man among men and a guy you didn't mess with. Told him I was leaving. He thought about it and a couple of the other executives said, "Let's have lunch tomorrow." And I said, "Look, I can't." But he said, "No, what are you going to do with your options?" Flexsteel was a public company and had options, and I knew fully well that once you were leaving a company, those options were forfeited. And he said, "No, no, you earn those options." And flash forward later in my career with another public company that I was fired from, they grabbed my options and like most companies just took them. Anyway, as you know, to exercise the options, you have to buy them and then resell them. And it was $90,000 for about $40,000 of options, and I didn't have $90,000. And he said, "I'll tell you what, I'll loan it to you so you can do this." 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Wow, that's amazing. How old were you at that point in your life or just roughly? What window of time- 

 

Bob Maricich: 

I was 37. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Oh, wow. So you're mature but still growing developing businessperson. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Oh, yeah. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

So that must've been pretty impactful on how you saw the rest of your career and how you treated people, I would imagine. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, and to see how a handshake and your word was everything. When you see people and you're involved with people that do that, there's a tendency to say, I want to be just like that. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

It says a lot about the culture at ANDMORE and stepping into your shoes the last year or so, people love you, they're loyal to you, but they also care about each other. They treat each other well. And I imagine a lot of that setting that culture and that tone, at least a piece of it came from that lesson and that experience from Jack. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah, absolutely. And as you've massaged and improved the values of ANDMORE, you realize the criticality of having mission and values, and that creates a culture. And when you get people that are aligned with missions and values and culture, then all of a sudden, boy, you've got an army that can execute on a strategy. And back to the power of people working together, it's amazing. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Going back, you described growing up and creating this moral compass and all of that, going back to that time in Montana, who influenced you? Who do you think about, when you reflect back in that part of your life, who comes to mind and how did they impact who you are today? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, my parents for sure. They were unbelievably supportive. And my father had a really simple saying. He said, "Look, if you get a good education, you keep your nose clean," in those days, it had a different meaning than maybe it does... but basically you're a good citizen. You behaved yourself and you worked harder than the next person. You're going to be successful. And it worked. It really worked. And I think that hard work element of it was just inculcated. And my mother was a really hard worker. She thought I was going to be President of the United States. And there was nothing I couldn't do in her eyes. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Right. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

My dad was a pipe fitter and my mother was a secretary for an electrical business. They both worked. And in the summertime when school was out, I would walk, at that time, it was about two and a half miles, to my grandmother's house. And every morning my brother and I would get up, my mom would go to work, and we'd walk over to our grandparents' house. So it's huge family. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Then you get accepted to Montana State basketball scholarship. I think I saw you. It was the first person in your family to go to college. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Right. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

So that must've been a big point of pride for your parents and- 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, my mom was over the moon that I graduated from high school. That was a real success. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

And so how did you choose, civil engineering is what you studied, obviously that's not the path in the long run you took, but what drew you to that? And I know that led to your first job I think at Texaco. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

This is going to come across as just being opportunistic. I was a pretty good student and I started off in honors physics, and when you're in honors physics, you have to take chemistry and honors math. And I was an athlete. I was playing, it was division one basketball at that time. And I can remember coming home, I was living at the fraternity house at the time, and one of the older guys had been on job interviews and he had a bunch of job offers, and I said, "What are you doing?" He goes, "Well, I'm an engineer. And man, there are so many jobs out there for engineers." And by implication, what do you do with a physics degree? It hadn't dawned on me. I had not had advice. And then, well, maybe I transfer to engineering. 

And I literally did right then. I went and I had the requisite math courses and things like that. But I did it in the context that that was the greatest opportunity to make some money and get a good job and without even thinking about it. And then I went to work for Texaco, started doing engineering work, and I hated it because I didn't know what engineers did. I found out it wasn't a lot of fun for what I wanted to do. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Let's jump ahead a little bit. You've talked very openly. I've always respected how you reflect on the time you were fired and how it affected you. Give us a little bit of context and then how did it affect you and how did it help define who you are? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

I had gone to American of Martinsville was the name of the company at the time. It's no longer in existence, not my fault. It was left in good hands. And basically the offer to me was come and run one of the home furnishings companies, a company called American Drew, and that will prepare you for maybe a broader, bigger job with the conglomerate. And I went there and I realized very quickly the company was really in trouble and the board didn't know it. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

What timeframe are we talking about, Bob? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

1995. So I am 45 years old at the time, coming off of... my career has been boom, boom, boom, boom, everyone up. So I get into this environment and walk in there. The former CEO leaves, gets a big job, and three of the top five people leave at the same time. And I think they knew what was coming that. Anyway, make a long story short, I was pretty aggressive in terms of saying how much trouble the company was in, and there were people asleep at the switch. It didn't go over well. Don't jokingly say this, but I was fired with enthusiasm.

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Brutally honest, transparent. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

It was a 45-second meeting, and I went out in the parking lot called my wife, and my wife said, "Well, that's good." 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Wow. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

"This is really good. You think you can change everybody. You weren't ever going to change them. The culture was different. It wasn't a good match to start with, and this is going to be the best thing that ever happened to you." I didn't work for six months, and in retrospect, it was maybe one of the best things that ever happened to me. I think a lot of successful people have gotten knocked down. And there's no crime in getting knocked down. And I had heard a saying that that just became inculcating at that moment, and that was never, ever, ever be a victim. You feel like you're in a situation of powerlessness that you don't have the power to change things. Never, ever, ever be a victim. And I had a highly supportive wife and family. And it was shameful. It was a front page furniture today, picture of me in the Martinsville Bulletin. But at the end of the day, the biggest lesson I learned was what I wouldn't do. And part of that was the type of people I didn't want to be associated with. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

That's that moral compass going back to earlier on. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Maybe just jump off and come back then to the career stuff, but how long have you and Andy been married now? It's 50 plus years? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

53 years this year. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Wow, that's amazing. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

I'm halfway there this coming year, 25 with Shannon, and same exact thing. Now that you're not retired, you're our executive chairman at ANDMORE, but you've got a little more time. I know I always kid you, if I see you don't have socks on, I know I'm doing my job because you're relaxed. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

I'm largely retired. I'm largely retired. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

So you're semi-retired, right? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Largely. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Having now a time, how does that affect you? I mean, I think about my own life and I've always thought it's really the quality, not necessarily the quantity of time you have. And if you're really present and able to dedicate yourself in the moment when you are with your kids or your spouse, that's really the most important. Now, if you have more quantity on top of that quality, obviously it gets only better. But any thoughts on that over the years and especially now? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, I think I remember a conversation I had 15 years ago with a fellow who was incredibly successful, incredibly wealthy, and the conversation was around success. And from every avenue that I looked at him, he was successful. And he said, "I've thought a lot about success, and if you make a lot of money, then people tend to look at you as successful." But he said, "Look, got to check five boxes. One is work, two is family. Maybe put family first work, family, friends, some form of religiosity, a higher calling and hobbies." 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Oh, that's interesting. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And he said, "If you can check the box on those five things," well, I had really checked the box on work. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Right. Right. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And there comes a time where you don't want to be the last guy at the party. And I'd watched a lot of my friends hang around too long and not get to that point where they're saying, okay, I've got that box double checked. I need to spend a little bit more time with my family, which I've been really blessed to do. And also friends, you may get a lot of acquaintances, but at some point in time you step back and go, how many people are really good friends? But I'm lucky enough to check those five boxes. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

I had never thought about that. I never thought about that framework. It makes a lot of sense. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

And it is, with people, it's about that connective tissue. It's not just, like you said, you're not measured by how many people are sort of superficial acquaintances. It's really the people you really are connected to, whether family. I'm really curious, I think a lot of folks would be too, what are the things you like to do, whether it's in Montana, Maine, or Florida? Share with folks. A lot of folks who know you know exactly where I'm heading with that question. I'm leading the witness here. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

The fishing part of it is something that's been a passion. We talk about starting in Montana. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Yeah. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

I guided a couple summers in West Yellowstone. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

I did not know that. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Overflowed some trips. We're a fishing family. And so now I'm doing more of that than I ever imagined. I've convinced myself I deserve it and Andy's supportive of it. I think I'm going to end up fishing about 90 days this year. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Wow. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

That's a lot of fishing. But at the end of the day, it's what I want to do and I don't want to work more than a little bit. And again, I checked that box. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

So let's go back a few years. Let's talk a little bit about ANDMORE and its early history. Maybe give us the first sort of how you even migrated into it post-century. What was happening in your world, in your life? Maybe go back to the beginning and start to share what you saw, how it came together initially. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

So I was the CEO of Century Furniture. Fantastic company, still is a fantastic company. I had a great job. And I was in my 50s, late 50s and realized that it could be groundhog's day every day for 10 years or whatever. And I just not built that way. And B, I had watched the incredible opportunities being created by private equity and developers. And at that time, World Market Center had been built two and a half of the buildings. It started in 2002. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Oh, that early. I didn't realize. This is the beginning, sort of semi-officially of the Great Recession 2007-ish, right? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

2008. At that time, the great financial crisis had really started to play out. The World Market Center was in huge debt, over a billion dollars of debt.

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Wow. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And I knew that going in. And so for a year and a half ran it, and there were three different businesses that were part of it. Each building was a different LLC. And so running a company in foreclosure, you've done it- 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

During that exact time, I was running a company through bankruptcy. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Exactly when you were doing this. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

You're with a special servicer and are they going to approve the bills and whatever? And every other Wednesday we'd have a meeting and see if Related would fund payroll. They still were on the hook for some of the debt. And so for a year and a half, I would stand up in front of the group and go, "We're going to make it." Despite the fact that in Las Vegas Review Journal, the headlines one day was a picture of the campus with the headlines that said, "Foreclosed." But when you're in a great financial crisis, you have limited opportunities because everybody's pulling back and the jobs or whatever. So it's like this is sink or swim. 

But there came the idea, and I had always had in the back of my head, the Warren Buffett saying, when others are fearful, be greedy. And when others are greedy, be fearful. Just stories about how great fortunes were built out of the depression. And it gets back to that sort of adversity and willingness to take risks and whatever. And I had watched other transactions where these other real estate properties were being bought for 50 cents on the dollar, 40 cents on the dollar. Related was in the middle of a number of those things. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Just to hit pause for a moment, here you are, great recession hitting. I think the world is appreciating we are in something deep now. Up until then, I think people don't understand that. You're running this company in foreclosure, keeping the lights on, keeping the team together. Boy oh boy, is that hard to do. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah. Yeah. I had a real belief in the business model that the business to business, physical markets, the business we're in today, the business you're in today, that there was no better way for buyers and sellers to come together. Then I started watching these really clever fearless operators, Oak Tree, which ended up investing in half of the capital to form what was going to become international market centers, was spending, I believe a billion dollars a week buying assets, their distressed debt, incredible people. And the co-founder, Bruce Karsh, ultimately got involved in our deal and said, "We like this going forward." And the power of all of a sudden you can buy assets at 50 off, 60 off, a third of the replacement value, changes the whole economic landscape. And it doesn't take very long to figure out that, boy, the profitability opportunities, the profit metrics, all of that change if you, all of a sudden your asset base goes down 50, 60%. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Right. So you've got this deep conviction during this time where probably a lot of others were not necessarily having that conviction that you had. How did you connect with Oak Tree? Was it you getting in front of them and based on that conviction effectively persuading them that this was something meaningful? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, I think before that was an important development. And was that a significant part of High Point was in the same situation for a very different reason. So the properties Vornado owned, Market Square properties, the properties that Showplace properties owned were in lieu of foreclosure. The IHFC was solid. That was not in debt really to speak of. The other businesses were just poorly run. And the seminal thought was that there was a war between High Point and Las Vegas that was nonsensical. It didn't make sense. They didn't have to be competitors. And if we could buy what ultimately were 16 buildings in High Point on a blended basis at a big discount, we could apply the same sort of financial metrics there, end the war and create a separate value proposition. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Was that then your view to pull these pieces together? 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

It was. So that was your vision to create some scale- 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

... lower basis, meaning add a discount and effectively persuade some capital partners to get behind it. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yeah. And to this day, I'm absolutely astounded no one else thought of it. It was right there in front of your face. Now, the raising a billion dollars or more to do it, that's a different story, but just the opportunity that, because the math was very straightforward. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

I still imagine, even though it was so obvious to you, I have a feeling there was a lot of persuasion and a lot of getting folks to come around because it may be obvious to you where you sit from your perspective, but not so obvious to others, especially during a bit of a fearful time. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, and the first conviction had to come from somebody that had access to... then a billion dollars was really a lot of money. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

It pretty much still is, but- 

 

Bob Maricich: 

When you look at some of these unicorns. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

I know. I know. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And Related was the only one that I had that relationship with. They were on the hook for some of the debt, and so they were willing to listen. And so it started with them. So we went through a series of, let's put together a deck, a proposal, and we actually bought a couple of the buildings with anonymous LLCs so no one could tell what was going on. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Right. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

But in that process, Bain and Oak Tree ended up saying they were really interested, wanted to partner with us. And from beginning to end, it was probably a year and a half. And I thought during that period, oh my God, somebody else is going to do this, people are going to back out. All of those sort of things. And so a year and a half of just utter foreclosure fear and then holding my breath while that all together. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

So keep going, I'll call it two big parts are together at this point. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Right. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Bought some buildings in High Point, building on that, new investor group capital behind you combined with World Market Centers in Vegas. So keep going if you would. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And so now all of a sudden, four companies were going to merge together and Related at this point decides they want to exit, they want to make some money in the transaction and not be involved any longer. And we had all of our financial systems, our human resources systems with shared services with Related. And they said, you got a couple months to get out of this. The High Point companies were just poorly run. If you looked at the pricing, it was just, there was no rhyme or reason to any of that. It became very clear that this was going to be a heavy lift. And in a way it was a godsend because it wasn't a greenfield opportunity, but it was really, you could start over. And Bain Capital was an unbelievable operating partner. Oak Tree was always an investor, highly supportive. 

And it was kind of interesting because we had put it together. I originally thought we could do it for seven, $800 million. And then it became apparent as we started actually buying things, all, by the way, under the radar, for the grand announcement that we owned all of this stuff. It turns out to be a billion. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Wow. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And the conversation with Bain was, how much do you think we're going to need in additional working capital to really get this thing off the ground? And I said, "I think about $20 million." And it didn't take them very long to come back and go, "No, you're going to need about 100 billion. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Right. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And they were right. But having a partner that had that kind of conviction, that's real money. And then with them as an operating partner, they really elevated my game. I'd said I learned more in my mid-50s to mid-60s than I had in all the previous years. And one was, what does real talent look like? So they have all 100 portfolio companies, whatever. They know what a great CFO looks like. And just like Blackstone today, with 280 portfolio companies, they have a view of the world that's broader than some guy from Montana. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Well there's a really great combination there of having that guy from that small town Montana along with that, a lot of folks I think in our industry don't appreciate, at least what I think both of us appreciate is your point. Having Blackstone as and ownership group, people think, oh, private equity. And somehow people, some people have a negative impression of what that means. Blackstone sees every corner of the globe. They can really help open our eyes. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And as you know, Jon, at the end of the day, a lot of the principles that I learned from private equity I would put to use if I bought a company today. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Right. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And they're performance driven, they have high expectations. They'll put capital in that you need to do that. And the currency of leadership is performance. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Right. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And you see a lot of these public companies that flounder and go on and they're mediocre for years or whatever. That doesn't happen with private equity. And when you're not able to perform, they've got the courage to take action. But I have always said, look, if somebody is going to give you a lot of capital and support you in every way, they deserve to have high expectations. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

And performance is a great thing. It's very much of a positive because efficiency and performance creates more opportunity and more opportunity by definition is more jobs, more prosperity for more people. It's a really great thing. I couldn't agree with you more on that. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

And also when you have good ideas, so flash forward to a lot of success for five and a half years, Blackstone comes along, they take out Bain and Oak Tree, and six months later we buy AmericasMart. Overnight the company's 60%, 70% bigger. Talking about taking advantage of opportunities. But again, they were convinced as I was about the essentiality and durability of a B2B marketplace. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Right. Human condition and market dynamics will always win the day. Human beings want to touch things. They want to see things, they want to smell things, they want to experience the ergonomics, and they also need so much of a market is discovery. And that word gets used a lot around markets, but speak to a little bit about some of those basic underlying virtues of a physical market and really why both of us believe in the durability and resilience of this business. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, and a lot of the businesses, you've got maybe 40, 50 really big businesses involved. When I talk about big business, I'm talking about over a billion dollars of revenue or whatever. And even that's a small cap. But a lot of these are small entrepreneurial companies as you know, where relationships are important. And so market is discovery. It's not just discovery of the latest trend, but it's also a discovery of what's the next trend? What's the next potential partner? Tariffs have turned things upside down. Maybe I'm buying everything from China. I need to broaden my supply chain. Well, those sort of things couldn't happen any more effectively than at market. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

And it's also the sense of community. Again, it's the humanity that underlies every business. At the end of the day, a company or company's industries are nothing. A business is nothing more than a group of people with a common business purpose intending to make a profit. If we all wake up at ANDMORE every day and for all of us in every business and wake up and just want to be a little bit better and are willing to commit to that, we'll go places and we'll become better every day. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Well, and to an earlier point, we talked about, I was involved with A to B then B being the transition from Bain and Oak Tree to Blackstone, and then B to C, C being my retirement from my CEO duties. Your journey now from C to D, just like my A to B was entirely different than B to C, This will be too, and I'm excited. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Yeah. Well, I'm super excited. As you know, I'm super excited and proud to be here to try to fill your shoes. I think we might have even the same size. Size 12. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

Yours are more fashionable. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

Well, I'm not sure about that, but they are big shoes to fill. I'm super grateful to know you, Bob. Thank you for just being here today. I know so many people know you and love you, but to understand who you are and how you got here in a more meaningful way, I think is going to be really appreciated. 

 

Bob Maricich: 

It's a real pleasure, and thank you for inviting me. 

 

Jon Pertchik: 

There's a lot to learn from Bob. What sticks with me is how open he is about the hard parts. He was fired, he led a company through foreclosure, he worked through a financial crash. As difficult and challenging as these major events were, Bob didn't act like a victim. He turned these moments into lessons and even opportunity, and that's where real leadership and ultimately success comes from. Bob's overcoming adversity reminds me of a quote by Rick Hoyt, a young man with cerebral palsy who after racing in an Ironman with his father, Dick Hoyt, for 24 hours after not finishing, after all that effort said, and I quote, "Sometimes you win and sometimes you learn." Meaning you only lose if you don't learn. Bob is the embodiment of that message. 

Thanks for listening to this episode of Scale Up Stories, part of the Market Makers podcast. I've been your host, Jon Pertchik. Make sure you're following the show wherever you get your podcasts, and I'll see you next time.