CHRISTI BARBOUR 

Christ Barbour:
I love my people. They are the ones that do the work. They're the ones that make the difference. And when you build a company around the people and the values that you believed and that they believe in as well, everything else comes naturally

Jon Pertchik:
Today on The Market Makers, how designer, entrepreneur, and community builder, Christi Barbour, puts people at the center of everything she does. Christi is the co-founder and partner at design studio Barbour Spangle based in High Point, North Carolina. She's chairwoman of the High Point Market Authority, the first interior designer in that role, and founder of High Point Discovered, an organization that champions and promotes local businesses in the city of High Point. Today, we talk about Christi's design philosophy, the mirror method approach where she believes space should feel like the person. We also talk about the realities of life and how they impact business, things like the 2008 financial crisis, COVID, and a string of personal losses. You'll also hear from our conversation that Christi's leadership style is rooted in people and mentorship and in particular, empowering young women. Thank you for joining us today and I hope you enjoy the conversation. Well, welcome Christi Barbour of Barbour Spangle. Thank you so much for being here, especially during busy high point.

Christ Barbour:
Thank you so much for having me, John, and I'm just delighted to be here today. Thank you.

Jon Pertchik:
Well, I'm psyched to get into some of this stuff with you. So tell us a little bit about your journey to getting to where you are with your business. Maybe just start really open. I mean, how did you start your business in 2000 and what are a couple of the first things that come to mind in terms of how you've grown it and come to occupy such a leading role in this community?

Christ Barbour:
It goes way back. I was in the industry and in 1997 actually, I hung a shingle out on the sunroom of our house and decided that I wanted to do design solo and I wanted to work with people I loved, doing what I loved. And so that has evolved to where we are today. In 2000, I took on a business partner, Christi Spangle, and from there we've grown the business and we have a quarterly meeting and at the top of my page I write, "Create your dream job, do epic work." And that was the driving force behind me leaving a job, leaving a steady paycheck, starting my own company, working out of my sunroom, which then evolved to the living room, to the dining room. And when I hit the kitchen, my husband was like, "Time out. We've got to get you out of the house." And so it has grown from there. It went to the garage. Like all great startups are, we were in the garage and then an office suite. We were in the Market Square building and now we're in the Congdon Yards building. It's been great.

Jon Pertchik:
Wow. So going back to that moment in '97 and then moving from room to room, what actually was the spark to say, I want to go do something for myself?

Christ Barbour:
Starting a business is scary and frightening and overwhelming all at the same time. And so have to share that part of it for me was the fact that I was in a job that I was very unhappy and I was running away from mediocrity. And one of the consultants that we use has said more often than not that he loves that we race towards greatness. And I love that, that I was running away from mediocrity when I left my job to start my own. And that we've been identified from a consultant that says, "I love that you race towards greatness." And so that's been a driving factor for us for years. I had a lot of contacts in the industry.

That's one thing I love about this industry, and we saw it in spades during the pandemic, that we are a relationship-based business. Everybody loves to be together. It's one of the reasons that we all were dying to get back to markets so that we could spend time together and learn from one another. And this industry is so supportive and so small. It seems huge, but it's actually very small. And the people that I had already met in the industry were so supportive of me and one project turned to 10 projects turned to more, and before I knew it, I was growing.

Jon Pertchik:
It's really more of a community than it is an industry because it really is a relationship place that people really just value people. So now staying in that window of time, you were racing away from mediocrity and you were then moving from room to room in your house, you then finally opened a business in another place. What were some of the challenges, going back and I'm thinking to what was happening in the 2000s, I guess the economy was kind of booming from 2000 to 2002, and then from there it gradually worsened and then we hit the recession. Maybe share some of what life was like as you were getting a business started, some of the hard stuff, some of the wins, some of the things that excited you. What was that window like?

Christ Barbour:
Yeah, we were really fortunate that our business continued to grow pretty consistently and because of that, we were experiencing success and success begets more success. And so we were growing with people as well. And that's actually when the transition from me from being a designer to being a business owner really became apparent. And I thought, "Wow, we are building something bigger than just creating beautiful spaces." And so as we've grown, one of the things that we've realized is that results matter, but people matter more. And I heard this quote one time and it's something to the effect of like, it's not the finances, it's not the strategy, it's not the technology, it's the people and it's the teamwork and that remains the ultimate competitive advantage. And so building a team for us, building the right people, getting the right people in place, developing a company that is run on values, that is where I realized we could differentiate ourselves from the market.

And then we, like everyone, were affected by the crash '08. Interestingly enough though, it didn't hit us until 10 because we already had projects booked and we were working on things, but '10 hit a lull. We made some changes that we needed to make. And this business, I look back and what was started in '97 and then partnership in 2000, we had 9/11, that actually hit our industry. And then we had the crash of '08, which hit us again. My business partner and I both have lost parents, that was a tough time in our lives. Then there was the pandemic and I've had health issues, so there's never been a straight path. It's this roller coaster of up and down. And I get told all the time, both from our team and from the people that are ion our inner circle, is that we're really good at adapting and the ebb and flow of what's working, what's not working, and how do we adjust to what we need to adjust to, whether that's for our team, for our clients, or given the economic impact of what's going on in the world.

Jon Pertchik:
From the start, Christie built a business around one simple idea, people matter more. That's pretty radical in a world that rewards speed and scale, but business isn't just about profits or growth, it's also about the culture you create. And this is essential, because when hard times come, and they will, it's your principles and values that get you through the ups and downs. I've been fortunate in my career to have run companies that were in Chapter 11 through the Great Recession and came out the other side. And through all of those challenges in those times and many others, what kept the company going was a sense of cohesiveness, a tight culture where people were still dedicated to each other and were willing to look beyond and work hard every day and ultimately come out the other side. And this is something I see Christi Barbour in particular and her leadership style, and it's the reason she's been so successful over so many years.

Christ Barbour:
If you had asked me back in 2000 that we'd be the size we are, I would've said no. We are a team of 18.

Jon Pertchik:
Wow.

Christ Barbour:
It's a really good size for us. And we are running in essence what I like to refer to as three design shops under one roof. And we've got three teams that have areas of expertise that are really good at what they do. They're very different areas. And then we've got one heart of house team that supports those three teams, and that's all the back of house, the things that every business needs. But thankfully we don't have to have that times three, we can have one heart of house that services each of those individual businesses.

Jon Pertchik:
Heart of house, that's even so different. That's why I'm pausing on it, because it says a lot about who you are and how you think. That's why I'm asking. How did you even come up with the name of that heart of house part of the sort of piece that moves to support the other three teams?

Christ Barbour:
So if you think about it, could any business survive without bookkeeping, payroll, expediting, marketing, sales? No. And so it's the heartbeat of the company. What we do is design, but those people that help us design are the heartbeat of the company. They keep things running and they do all the things that creatives hate doing. And so it helps us, because we've got really smart people. And having started a business completely by myself, at one point in time I did everything from send the invoices out to paying the invoices to doing the design work, to filing the paperwork and looking for more business. And so I recognize that we all have our strengths and weaknesses. And very early in my career, I felt like I couldn't afford to hire anybody. And what I learned really quickly was, you can't afford not to. You need to get the people who are really good at what they can do so that you can excel and do the things that you're really good at. So it is truly the heartbeat of the company.

Jon Pertchik:
I understand as a person, Christi, using that term heartbeat, but still most people, and the reason I'm going further on this, again, I think others can really take something away from this. What within you cause you to think of the word heart to call? What makes you different? So many businesses have a shared services, have a fill in the blank this kind of generic, cold, sterile term to describe a group that you described as the heart, the center. Where does that come from in you? Where does that come from as a person? Do you have any idea?

Christ Barbour:
That's simple, I love my people.

Jon Pertchik:
That's awesome.

Christ Barbour:
I love my people. They are the ones that do the work. They're the ones that make the difference. And it goes back to what I said earlier. When you build a company around the people and the values that you believed and that they believe in as well. When you can do that, everything else comes naturally.

Jon Pertchik:
Well, fast forwarding also a little bit to currently the business is now 18 people, I think you said. Maybe share those three design teams and what they do, what their differentiation is one to the next.

Christ Barbour:
They're each amazing team's in their own right. The one that you know us by the best is we call them the showroom team. They create spaces that sell products. And so whether that's showrooms like here in High Point, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Chicago, New York, or it's retail. And so we've done both and we've done both in all of those cities and more. And so that's been a really good area for us. The second team is commercial spaces, so really anything public facing. And that team does a really good job at any particular place that the public will enter. So whether that's workspace design, a restaurant, mixed use, things of that nature. And then we have a residential team, which is one of the reasons why being involved in this industry is so great for us because we've got access to all of these wonderful products and we have relationships with all these manufacturers and we have been put in a unique position because we design the spaces that sell the product, but we also design for the end consumer who wants to buy that product.

And so it gives us a really unique point of view and it's one that we really love. And then on top of those three unique distinct channels that all have their own subject matter experts, they cross collaborate often. So a great example of that is multifamily. So we're pulling the very best and the knowledgeable from our commercial team, and then we're pulling from the residential team so that we can create in an apartment complex, really wonderful clubhouse spaces, and sales experience, but also great models that someone who wants to rent from them walks in and it's just blows their mind. This is aspirational. Like, "Yes, I want to live here." And so that cross collaboration is one of our unique differentiators because we can pull from those teams.

Jon Pertchik:
So where do you sit? Do you migrate from team to team? I mean, give leadership? How active are you in actual design, you personally in the business, knowing that it's gotten very substantial?

Christ Barbour:
I'm not the best at allocating time. I tend to be a bit of a workaholic. For those of you who know me, they're all laughing. I do love what I do. I love the process of design. I'm still very much involved in it, typically at a higher level, but right before coming here I was sketching some designs for a development that we're working on, and so I bounce in and out. I think that's probably a fair way to put it. And I also bounce from team to team. One of the things that, it was interesting, my stepfather was a surgeon and a lot of people in my life, including him said, "You have to find an area of specialty. You have to specialize to be good at anything that you do." And I just kind of felt like I don't agree with that.

I bucked the system and I'm like, "You know what? I love working with people on their homes, but I also love working with a workplace environment about how people interact with spaces. And then I love working with manufacturers and talking about product development and how do they successfully create an area to sell their products to the retailers that ultimately go in the homes that we design for." So I love it all and I didn't want to settle for any of it. And so it was kind of like, "Well, why don't we just build a company that does all of it and then I can bounce between."

Jon Pertchik:
You also, I've read your superpower is you're an introvert, self-describes, and that that sort of causes you to focus on deeper relationships and creating deeper relationships. Maybe you can share a little bit about that.

Christ Barbour:
Wow, you did your homework.

Jon Pertchik:
I try.

Christ Barbour:
Wow.

Jon Pertchik:
Try to take this stuff seriously.

Christ Barbour:
I very much am an introvert. Worst date would be to take me to a cocktail party. Small talk and chit-chat is really not where my strength is and everybody who knows me says that my strength is deeper relationships. I'd much rather sit at this table and have a deep, meaningful conversation that will lead to another and another. And I learned, it took me forever to learn this, I would dread cocktail parties or networking events and someone told me, "Don't fear those, lean in and just try to have one meaningful conversation. And if that's all you get out of it, then it's a win." When I approached networking and events like that, suddenly they became enjoyable because I'd find one person and I'd have one really great conversation and hopefully some of those people are listening today and they know this to be true about me. I would much rather have that.

Jon Pertchik:
So for everybody listening, it's possible to build a really successful business that has grown rapidly and not necessarily be the world's greatest networker. In fact, it's more about perspective and finding your place within that. How has that being self-described, introvert, and building deep relationships, how does that in any way relate to design philosophy for you and how you approach design?

Christ Barbour:
We for years, for as long as I can remember, so probably since we've started the company, we've taken a little bit different approach to design. A lot of designers, many of whom are dear friends of mine, have a very specific look or aesthetic and they've become very well known for that. Ever since we started the company, we haven't gone for a specific aesthetic. So if you look through our portfolio, you're not going to be able to say, "We do X or Y." We coined the phrase the mirror method because it is important to us to build a relationship first, which goes back to me, to that personality of building relationships. We want to get to know our clients, we want to understand who they are at their very core, at their heart and reflect that within the designs that we create and that could happen in a home, that can happen in a business.
When we understand the values of who we're working for and what is important to them, that's when we can do truly a meaningful design. In my opinion, aesthetics is the byproduct of what we're actually doing, which is tapping into the values and that core belief of what these people need. And then we reflect that back in the design. And the very best compliment that we could ever get is when someone comes into either your home or your place of business and they're like, "This looks just like you John." Or, "This feels just like your brand." Because we are looking to create the built environment that is reflective of the people that live there or work there or the company that embodies that. We're not looking to create our stamp on an interior, and that is our core belief, that mirror method approach.

Jon Pertchik:
For Christi, great design goes beyond the individual project. It's also about building community, and that's where she really shines as a leader, she builds people up. Mentorship in life and in business is really critical. And while it's about giving, I feel is every time I've mentored someone, I've gotten so much more. Giving back in this way through mentorship is really an important part of the bigger picture because in a way, it's the cycle of life. It's the how do we make all tides rise and how do we make business and a community and an industry more successful? It really goes back to a tribal concept of, how do you pass history along. It really is ultimately through one-on-one education, which is really a form of mentorship. And I see it in Christi. I mean, the heart of what Christi does, her singular priority it seems to me is to lead others and to give back to her community. And I know in her hometown of High Point, North Carolina, that belief has taken shape in a very real way.

Christ Barbour:
I started something called High Point Discovered back in 2015. I talk about it like it's my love letter to High Point. It was very much a grassroots, sitting around the kitchen table with my kids' effort. And it was really at that point in time, it was a conversation about High Point is starting to come out of a slumber and people are finally investing in us again and starting new businesses. And I was frustrated because as a business owner, we know how important it is for people to support us. Small business has got to be supported by the community first and foremost, and then the industry it serves. And so literally at the kitchen table one night I was sitting with the kids and they were young and I said, I want to make sure that everybody recognizes these new businesses. And so as a middle schooler would, they're like, "Duh, just put it on Instagram."

And so very long story short, over the past 10 years, we started as an anonymous Instagram page. We went to a blog that went to a website that is now a beautiful print magazine and it is about storytelling and the impact that storytelling has and when you can connect your head and your heart, going back to the heart, people tap into that more. And I think that there is a connection of what we do with design, because again, when you design with values and you design around you and not the aesthetic that I want, that connects your head and your heart. And it's just like the storytelling that we do at High Point discovered. And so through High Point discovered, we have been calling the city the Creative City for years. It's just been within the last year that City of High Point really embraced that moniker and has publicly proclaimed, "Okay, we are the creative city." Now why do I say that?

Because I'm in a creative field and in this amazing industry that we share and I see that we are a creative city. The things that start here, this is what blows my mind, the things that start here have an impact all over the globe. The ideas that are generated here, the conversations that start here. And so High Point Discovered has done a really good job over the last 10 years telling those stories. And so even just as recently as last year on behalf of the city, we wrote the pitch for and then the final application for the All-America Cities, which High Point won. And so that brings national recognition to our city. And so I'm very proud of the work that is now a team, that organization runs on its own. I sit on the board, but I am not in the day-to-day there now because we've put together a really incredible team of people and I've sat on other community boards and been part of city initiatives and community-wide initiatives because this city has been very good to us and it's our way of giving back to the city.

Jon Pertchik:
That really is amazing and congratulations. Thank you for that leadership. Maybe speak to your view on the importance of High Point the city and High Point the market because it really has a rich history.

Christ Barbour:
It does. I love this question and it reminds me, this whole conversation has reminded me when Jeff Scheffer came to me to the office when he was serving as past board chair and he set up an appointment and I thought, "He's coming to assign me to a committee." And he says, "Christi, I would really like for you to consider being the next chairman of the board." And I was like, "What?" And he said, "We look at this as a triple win. You are a designer who's coming and a buyer at this market that shops all these other markets here and around the globe, and then you are designing the spaces that sell the product. But the third one was, you are a community and you understand how High Point Market affects High Point City and how the City of High Point affects High Point Market." And I loved that. And so the market, when we bring in all of these people, all of these great ideas, this product and the city comes alive, incredibly vibrant. It brings so much goodness to our community. It keeps people working, it gives people jobs.

It allows us to have amenities and services that we would have never had before. But on a greater and grander scale, it also affects the triad, which is our sister cities, Greensboro and Winston-Salem, and then it also has an effect on the entire state. I mean, this is a huge economic impact to our state from the city of High Point all the way to the state of North Carolina, we love market. We talk at the board often, you mentioned this earlier about the hospitality and the friendliness nature, and that's one of the things that we hear more often than anything as a market, is how friendly and welcoming and inclusive we are as a market. And so it is a significant impact both citywide and industry-wide that I can't put adequately into words. I hope I did a decent job.

Jon Pertchik:
You did, and you're in a unique position for all the reasons you noted to speak to High Point the place and High Point the market, so thanks for that. Maybe one last thing as we start to get to wrap up, and this is kind of the ultimate question. If you were sitting across, not from me, but from a small group of young design students and maybe another group of designers who've been out in the world, what would you tell them? What advice would you give?

Christ Barbour:
I love talking with students so I'll on that part of the question and what I would say if you were a student getting ready to graduate is, we need you here. And we know and we understand that you don't know everything, so don't feel like you need to walk in acting like you do. Be a sponge, be open, be full of yourself. Embrace this creative world because it's going to be important that we have your voice here and be open and willing to do and learn everything. Be the person that offers to help. Be the person that brings the ideas to the table. Don't be afraid to ask questions because we know that you don't have all the answers. Be a sponge because it is important for us to have our industry continue to grow and to have an evolution of young designers of all various backgrounds entering our industry and then embrace it fully.

Jon Pertchik:
Well said. Advice to the students who are hopefully listening. Christi Barbour of Barbour Spangle, ultimate spokesperson for High Point Market and High Point. I'm humbled you're here. Thank you so much for being here and I really, on a personal level, gotten so much out of our conversation, so thank you for that.


Christ Barbour:
Thank you, Jon. I really appreciate you having me here. It's been a true pleasure.

Jon Pertchik:
What's amazing about Christi Barbour are several things, from humble beginnings and building a business out of a garage, I think hopefully the audience of our podcast really is starting something themselves or once upon a time, starting something themselves can really relate to that. Something more unexpected about Christi is that she's introverted. She's such a big time leader. I think part of the special sauce is she really pays attention to the deeper meaning of things and isn't so excited about maybe superficial conversation. That's consistent with her management style, that she really values people and invests in people. I think finally, it's amazing when you look back at Christi's history and overcoming challenge after challenge from 2008 Great Recession, before that, 9/11, COVID, personal hardships. And here she is really at the top of the heap.

She's the first chairperson of the High Point Market Authority, who's actually a designer. So Christi Barbour's an amazing person who's accomplished so much, and we can all learn from her, including myself. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of The Market Makers, a podcast by ANDMORE. I've been your host, Jon Pertchik. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure you're following the show wherever you get your podcasts. And join us each week as we uncover more stories of transformation from the people shaping the design, furniture, and lifestyle industries.